Officiality in Druidism

Nyghtwolfe
Nyghtwolfe's picture
Posts: 9
Joined: 2010-07-31

To officially call oneself a Druid, is it nessesary to have formal membership and training in a Druidic group or can anyone who studies and believes in Celtic and Druidic beliefs and traditions call themself a Druid even though they are not members of any group?

 Some feel that without formal training a person can only scratch the surface of Druidism. Without proper initiation rituals anyone can join or leave Druidism instantly without much forethought.

Others feel that Druidism is an open spiritual practise that can be practised by anyone. It is easier for solitary Druids to simply pracise their own version of Druidism when their are no local groves to practise with.

I just want to know your opinion on the matter.

--

Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Aemilius
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Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

What's going on?



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

What happened to Druidic Dawn.... Why are old threads being injected with Spam? 



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thedruid-3X3@ho...
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Druidic Dawn | "Building unity in the community"

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Oghma
Oghma's picture
Posts: 8
Joined: 2010-08-23
Re: Officiality in Druidism

I think that you need to initiation to be a Druid.

To  call onself a Druid, one must fallow all of the druids laws and practices.

I can call myself a potatoe, but act like a tomatoe. Am I really a potatoe?

No, in order to be a Druid you must act like a Druid.

This is my opinion.



Domhnall
Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-09-08
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Aemilius,

I am personally saddened and feel some measure of responsibility for you withdrawing from the forums. That is not what is needed here or on any discussion forum. As I stated in my own posting, it is by the exchange of ideas, practices and opinions that we gain knowledge and understanding. To lose even one person would do no credit to anyone wishing to learn from what we express.

It is with that thought in mind that I must ask that you reconsider your position. The question was raised by Nyghtwolfe, you answered in the manner you felt was proper, and offereed your opinion. That is all one can ask.

Again, if you took offense to anything I have said in my posting, I apologize. It was not my intent to cause offense or harm, but to point out that all ideas are relevent to the discussion.

However, the decision is yours, you must follow where your heart and mind say is best for you.

 

Blessings,

Domhn



Astrocelt
Astrocelt's picture
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilus,

I note your comment and PM about a post being moved. Unfortunately your personal PM setting does not allow me to reply privately to you on this matter. Subsequently I have no other option but to do it publicly.

Nothing should move in the forums as each post is dated and timed stamp at the time of posting/submitting/editing. If you would like to identify the post in this thread, together with information of its position where it was and is now. Submit your querry/information via the feedback form, admin and the computer technicians will investigate, reporting back accordingly on the outcome of their findings.

Astrocelt



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Kenneth,

 

As I have stated several times now, this is all very new to me. I am clearly not as familiar with the computer as a mode of communication as you are. I have no history of unethical conduct, nor did it occur to me at the time that “edit’ was made that it would be perceived as intentionally deceptive or dishonest. My only motivation was to “tone down” what I determined at the time to be an overzealous comment (nobody is perfect), to a more moderate one that I stand by. I think, if it is not asking too much, it can safely be forgiven as a minor transgression, as long as it is not repeated. I see the administrator status of a neutral site like this as comparable to that of the moderator in an ongoing debate, the only difference being one of scale, as this debate is now global. If you can show me just one instance wherein the moderator of any debate was also a participant in the same debate without the accompanying conflict of interest inherent in such a scenario, I will gladly concede my error and apologize. This is not to say that the moderator has no right to an opinion with regard to the topic under consideration, only that the opinion of the moderator is more properly presented in the form of a separate editorial, if true neutrality is to be maintained. 

 

When it comes to “pedigree un-rolling”, I have rarely mentioned it to anyone, and there is only one brief reference to it in my “member’s profile” because it is a fact, which hardly qualifies me as braggart. It only became an issue when you made it into one in your initial post, by labeling me a liar and a fraud (in so many words), which is a label I would doubtless still be wearing without it. In your next post, almost as if by “magic”, you think that you “get where I am coming from and you respect that place”. Those words were not only dishonest, they were disingenuous. The words of a sea lawyer.   

 

As concerns my public service, it began when I left school at sixteen years of age. I became involved with a neighborhood block watch program and a short time later was asked to accept a position on the Seattle Community Crime Prevention Advisory Commission to then Mayor Wes Uhlman, helping in the creation and implementation of a program now known as “Neighborhood Crime Watch”, which is still in effect, and has significantly reduced crime in the Seattle area ever since. I also volunteered as an assistant Occupational Therapist, working with the disabled, at the University of Washington Hospital for two years after that, which also gave me access to the campus libraries, including the special collections department. My Druidry involves a deep respect for the Earth, and I have never purchased one drop of gasoline in my life, which is part of my “do no harm” philosophy, and  consuming only certified organic foods and the use of other products that “do no harm” to the Earth in their production.  For the last fifteen years my around the clock presence has been necessary to assure the happy and healthy independence of my mother, as I do not believe in nursing facilities after having seen the results of warehousing the elderly, first hand, during my volunteer work. If I should manage to outlive her, I will return to a more active role in the community. Therefore, your perception of my legitimacy or authenticity, or the lack of it, in your lengthy diatribe is a matter of supernatural indifference to me, as is your opinion of how I apply it within the community within which I live. My daily devotion is not open for discussion. So much for “posturing”, as you put it.

 

Your remark about my “extreme multicultural pluralism” is completely understandable to me now that I can see it in context together with the additional information you so grudgingly provided, so I take back the observation I made about your seeming “spiritual prejudice” (and I promise not to edit my earlier post). In seeking a way to successfully pass on the knowledge of Druidry from one generation to the next effectively, as you earlier mentioned, I think between your newer institutional approach with your councils, boards, presidents, etc., and my staunchly individualistic older approach of secluded study and the renouncing of worldly pursuits, similar to monasticism, in combination with local community volunteerism, etc., though quite differently structured, may in fact be aligned in some of the best ways.

 

An academic understanding (archaeological, anthropological, cultural) of our ancestral heritage can be useful, as is any study of history, but it is an option and should not be a prerequisite to the participation in what should be open to all and, to quote an historical figure, “simple enough for a child to understand”. Whether they speak Spanish, Cambodian, Lithuanian, or any other language. This is now global, as people from all over the world become increasingly interested in doing the “right thing” for the planet. If they are doing the right thing and want to call themselves a Druid that’s great! It’s good for me, it’s good for you, and it’s good for the Earth. Has the word “Druid” been abused and even used as a fashion symbol? Absolutely. Do I approve of this abuse? Absolutely not. Take a lesson from the Christians, whose symbol, the Cross, has been abused in ways that are not fit to be mentioned. As yet, though, I have seen no “movement” to redesign it in an effort to restore it to some former imagined glory. Unlike the simple, ancient path that I walk, consisting of the simple daily stepping stones of experience which can lead one to wisdom, if one applies oneself, your so called Celtic re-constructionist approach where an academic and cultural understanding is so important in rebuilding the living path appears to me more like the Brooklyn Bridge from the point of view of the common man. And what’s the matter with tree hugger as druid?  So, good luck, as you continue to work at “reconstructing the living path” at what you have referred to as “my end of the continuum” (a Freudian slip?)

 

So, what right do I have to question anyone’s sincerity, motivation, credibility or authenticity? The same right that you are exercising in questioning my sincerity, motivation, credibility and authenticity. I will let you have the last word.

 

Aemilius

 

  



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

You are Druids

When I first got this computer, my only goal at the time was to learn enough about it to create a web site for my mother. Once that was accomplished, in the process of trying to make people aware of it, I quickly became aware of the ongoing debate over all the different ways that people have found to express their spiritual path, and why this or that way is better or worse than another way, etc., and joined in.

But, as time went on, I found myself growing increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of continuing to participate in this “debate”, I just couldn’t quite put my finger on it. Then it came to me. Why should I be interested in convincing anyone of anything? My path works for me.

I recognize this forum as a valuable tool for those who are just starting out, like Nyghtwolfe, and for those who are already on the path, but still searching for the best way to walk it, in exchanging ideas and discussing ideologies. I am neither.

All the various ways of walking the path are very well represented by this and other sites I have seen, from the individualistic, like my path, to the authoritarian , like Kenneth’s path, and everything in between (even a site for gay and lesbian Druids).

Kenneth does not agree with my approach of individual secluded study, and the renouncing of worldly pursuits. I, on the other hand, do not understand how, if we go by the historical evidence, Kenneth has managed to become an Elder, Ovate and President of the Board, all in just sixteen years. All meaningless.

Ultimately, in spite of our personal differences, as CalonDdraig said, "We're not singing from the same hymn sheet, but we're all singing our own songs to the same tune", and serving the community in the best way we can, and that is really all that should matter.

I’ll “send up a flare” once in a while in the form of posting something my mother wants people to see, one of her portraits, or something she has written, and continue to watch as Druidry evolves, hopeful that each and every one you finds the right path for you. Good luck on your journey!

As I now permanently withdraw from this “online forum”, back to my individual path and anonymity, and the peace that I derive from it each day, I just want to thank all of you for broadening my understanding of what Druidry has become, and what it may yet become.

See you on the path, Aemilius



CalonDdraig
CalonDdraig's picture
Posts: 250
Joined: 2007-10-30
Re: Officiality in Druidism

No problem Aemilius, just looks like a blip on the thread that's all:)

Lamme, very good point:

I feel some one who belifes druid belifes and follows that path in life is a druid just as a cristion that dose not go to church but belives and follows the bible is a cristion and a pagan that follows ther path in private with out a coven is still a pagan. 

 I agree strongly with you there. For instance, many people practice Druidry on their own as a lot of us don't have a local grove or order to participate in. For instance, in Gwynedd, we (Cylch Blodeuwedd) started our own grove as no-one was doing regular and accessible rituals. But we mustn't forget what many call "Hedge Druids" - those who practice in a solitary manner because of geography or choice. Thanks for reminding us of that fact!

Cheers,

~CalonDdraig 



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

To the general membership,

I do not know how or why one of my earlier posts directed to Kenneth has been moved to where it is now. It is not an attempt by me to re-ignite the previous contentious exchange and I have made an inquiry about it in order to maintain the original order of the posts as they were made. If somehow I am responsible, through some error on my part, I apologize.

Aemilius 

 



Iamme
Posts: 7
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

 Hi I am realy new to this but I hope you will value my opinion any how. What we lable our self is a personal preference. I feel that religion is for ones self to decide. Ther are many pagan and christion people alike who do not go to chrch or are not a member of a coven, yet are very dedicated and strick on ther belifes. Dose that make them any less pagan or christion. I dont know what other opinions are and we are all intittled to our own. Even members of the same group will have differences in opinion. We must be carefull with lables in the first place. They are for jars not people, If we lable our self and others it helps us seperate each other and The goal to most (religion) is peace and unity. I feel some one who belifes druid belifes and follows that path in life is a druid just as a cristion that dose not go to church but belives and follows the bible is a cristion and a pagan that follows ther path in private with out a coven is still a pagan. thanks for hearing me out..



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Astrocelt, 

There is no need for sadness, Astrocelt, as you were never seen by me as an adversary. CalonDdraig is also a “moderator”, and even though his interjection was more to my liking than yours, I also took issue with him, in a private communication, over whether or not the moderator(s) of a debate can also be participant(s). I no longer expect anyone to address this issue directly, and have moved on. Your diplomacy throughout this whole thing though, in the end, fits the properly spelled, dictionary definitions of the words “admirable” and “honorable”. 

Aemilius



Astrocelt
Astrocelt's picture
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

I’m very saddened to hear I’ve been considered to be an adversary within this discussion.

By presenting a link to different opinions on other websites which could have assisted in the exploration of this discussion. After which my main concern was an opinion posted which had its meaning altered in between the times before I could respond to it. I can only presume rightly or wrongly, it has a bearing on the opinions held within the those contributed links where other people spoke or wrote their “truth against the world” with passion.

Yes Aemilius, I am classified as a moderator along with others. The rules are very simple; they are contained within the Terms and Conditions, the Privacy Policy and any other relative information. Therefore using the facilities on site indicates one is familiar with these. If not, please be advised to consult then, they are available on every page below the Druidic Dawn summer logo, anyone has the ability to consult them.  This is what governs every area of this website including the forums.

Overall this thread has no bearing on ones grammatical spelling or the ability to uses a dictionary; nor is it one particular Druid approach against another. Such views only continue and perpetuate the ‘dysfunctional’ nature of Druidry, which has already been noted by various thread contributors.

If you have only been on the World Wide Web for six months, you might not be aware forum threads are tricky things to keep focused to their subject line. The direction which they take is dependant and within the communities members’ powers who contribute and share information within them. Thus they swing like a pendulum too and fro or they shoot off elsewhere like an arrow.

"(Could you clarify what you mean by the "two additional links I have posted" more specifically, in laymen's terms?  I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean, I am still learning the "lingo".)"

I understand from your profile you have created or assited to create a website togeher with supplying a shared link to it. For me to explain to someone who is conversent with web site construction in laymen's terms, what I meant by the "two additional links I have posted". To undertake any response could be taken as an insult by someone familiar with creating links to another web resource.  

Accordingly I hope you’ll participate in other thread discussions where information can be shared freely and openly within the forums on Druidic Dawn.

Peace
Astrocelt



Astrocelt
Astrocelt's picture
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Nyghtwolf,

I understand Admin has recently informed you how one can prevent receiving notifications from any forum thread one may contribute too, or even create.  Additionally can I draw your attention to this Better Reply Notifications. Every community member has the ability to control the automated notifications they received this information  should assist you to create your personal preference.

Astrocelt



Nyghtwolfe
Nyghtwolfe's picture
Posts: 9
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Thank you very much Aemilius :-)

Nyghtwolfe

--

Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Guenn Eona Nimue
Guenn Eona Nimue's picture
Posts: 53
Joined: 2010-07-18
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Greetings from Dame Guenn Eona Nimue,

I have been watching this phantom encounter between the ancient Druidic ways, and modern reconstructionist Druidry. At the deepest levels, no one particular person is to blame for the sudden ugly confrontation between so-called "old" and "new" ways. Until now there has been absolutely no access to the most ancient ancestral teachings. It appears that Druidry is now in a time of disarray, but this is pure illusion. Nothing was ever lost, just stored away until it was time, to once again, mend the net of time. So much sadness, so often meaningless lives. Life will now change forever, because nature is in charge. Remember no one is to blame for wrong decisions when there are no blueprints, no guidelines. Learn to speak directly to the old elementals.... It is easy to do.... They are waiting.



Domhnall
Posts: 6
Joined: 2008-09-08
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Nyghtwolfe,

I am really thinking that if you consider yourself a Druid then you are. I agree with an earlier post that stated it is not what you call yourself, it is what you do with the title.

Something to consider, the ancient Druids were in training for many, many years before they were "given" the full title and responsiblities of a Druid. But, they were still called Druids (some camps call them 'acolytes' or Acolyte Druids').

I hold with the belief that while I am studying Druidry, and practicing the old ways as best I can, I am no less a Druid. That is not to say I know it all, because I don't. I shall continue to learn until the day I pass to the Eternal Lands of Youth. Even then I may not know all.

The point I am trying to make is that the discourse of the posts are beneficial to you becausse they give differing views (even if they seem to degrade into childish rants at times) which should help you to make a sound and learned decision on how YOU wish to proceed with your understanding and learning Druidry.

It is my humble opinion that if you love the Great Mother, revere all life, practice and perform according to your beliefs, you are a Druid. And I would argue the point with anyone who may say otherwise. For the things I have just mentioned are the basics  of Druidry.

I hope this helps you in your search for an answer.



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

I am in agreement with Nyghtwolfe, and will make no further comment on this "thread".

Aemilius



Nyghtwolfe
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Posts: 9
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

This post has become what I wish it hadn't. It is no longer a friendly exchange of information and opinions, it is an ongoing conflict. I am recieving email after email telling me that a new comment has been posted. I no longer read the comments, I know they are just part of the endless arguing. It has come down to a fight for the best spelling and grammar. I am going to ask that no further comments of this sort be posted, thank you.

Nyghtwolfe

--

Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Astrocelt, 

Thank you, Astrocelt, for bringing up the impetus behind my posting of that remark (I have monitored). My desire not to continue the previous adversarial exchange prevented me from attempting to explore it any further, and it was never addressed at all by Kenneth or you. Maybe now, as the dust settles, you can assist me in order that I might avoid making a similar mistake in the future, if it was a mistake. 

Your official title in connection with this site, “Member of the Druidic Dawn Project Team - Druidic Dawn Northern Hemisphere”, identifies you as one of the moderators of this public forum at this online discussion site. Neutrality is considered to be of importance here in the facilitation of free and open debate among the general membership concerning the topic under consideration, in this case, “Officiality in Druidism”. Hence, your interjection as the moderator, in offering “assistance” or “information”, in any form other than a separate editorial comment, article or new forum topic, changed the course of the debate, as can be clearly seen in review. So I cannot agree with you or Kenneth that  “presenting a difference of opinion is all part of displaying impartiality” as the display of impartiality by the moderator of any debate, by definition, is marked by no “display” at all, except in the enforcement of the rules of said debate. 

And so, as I wrote to Kenneth.... 

“If you can show me just one instance wherein the moderator of any debate was also a participant in the same debate without the accompanying conflict of interest inherent in such a scenario, I will gladly concede my error and apologize. This is not to say that the moderator has no right to an opinion with regard to the topic under consideration, only that the opinion of the moderator is more properly presented in the form of a separate editorial, if true neutrality is to be maintained.” 

This standing offer of an apology is also open to you. 

Your response to this post, including any substantial or compelling reasons you may wish to include as to why I should change my opinion, whether I agree with your explanation or not, will be those that govern my participation on this site from this point forward....   

As you are the moderator. 

Aemilius    

 

 

(Could you clarify what you mean by the "two additional links I have posted" more specifically, in laymen's terms?  I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean, I am still learning the "lingo".)

 NOTE:  This post has been ammended to include additional information.



Astrocelt
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

Astrocelt wrote

“For the purposes of clarification; I gather you have taken an assumption from my original post, that I too hold similar views to those in the links, which were presented, is this correct?”

Aemillus wrote

“The answer to your question is emphatically no, I make no assumptions about your personal views, and I never meant to imply that in any way. If you have any other questions, you have only to ask.”

As you have not taken an assumption on the personal views I hold. Then may I ask what is or was the impetuous behind it all, which led you to make the post and take the action which you did? After having just contributed two alternative links which contain views or opinions on the question which the originator of this thread had proposed?

Astrocelt



Aemilius
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Posts: 55
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

A Clarification,

In one of Kenneth's posts, he asks what right I have to declare who should or should not be allowed to particpate in what I believe, and have steadfastly maintained, should be open to all. I just want to be clear that I have never said any one, including Stefan, did not have the right to call themselves a Druid. What I do say, is that I object to any barriers being erected in the form of social, economic, cultural or academic requirements in adopting the word Druid if one wants to in describing their spiritual path, and I will continue to object to it whenever I see it happening.

Aemilius

 

NOTE:  This post has been edited for grammer or spelling error.  



Aemilius
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Posts: 55
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Astrocelt,

Yes, I have most certainly discovered that there are differing views! I would also like to apologize to you for my obvious blunder, and naivete, in responding to your post with those "stronger words", as you so kindly put it. I hope that in time, perhaps, you can forgive it. I also now know that editing on this machine is not the same as on my old manual typewriter either, as I attempt to make the leap to this way of communication. The significance of your question at that time (intrigued to know) was lost on me, but Kenneth's next post following yours (dishonest) made the implication of it painfully clear.

The answer to your question is emphatically no, I make no assumptions about your personal views, and I never meant to imply that in any way. If you have any other questions, you have only to ask.

Sincerely,  Aemilius

 

NOTE: This post has been editited for grammer or spelling error. 



Astrocelt
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Posts: 753
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

I noted the toning down of your previous stronger words, in light of my attempt to assist Nyghtwolfe to draw his own conclusions on this subject titled “Officiality in Druidism”; as you may have already deduced or discovered there are indeed other views within the Modern Revival of Druidry.

For the purposes of clarification; I gather you have taken an assumption from my original post, that I too hold similar views to those in the links, which were presented, is this correct? 

Astrocelt